Sniper Country Duty Roster collective wisdom

Remington M700 loading problems:

Gentleman:

My Rem. M700 is acting up. Meaning that it's not feeding rounds from the mag. w/ any reliability. And I seem to be having difficulty loading any more than 2 in the mag. I can put 2 rounds in the mag. fine, but for some reason, the third one goes in w/ difficulty and will ,sometimes, look misalighned. The 4th rd. goes in w/ a large amt. of forcing effort and sometines doesn't want to go at all. This is not a good thing. I want to be able to smoothly cycle the bolt and feed rds. for rapid fire.

I was practicing 5 shot rapid from prone at the range a couple of days ago. I could get 4 in the mag. and load a 5th in the chamber, but when shooting, the bolt would not grab the 3rd shot. The round appeared to be incorrectly oriented. I had to stop, dump the rds. or fiddle w/ no 3 in the mag to get things going.

Today, I visited my friend and mentor, Hook Boutin. We replaced the factory follower w/ an after market steel follower and he "peened" the underside follower tabs against the spring w/ a punch to prevent the follower from sliding back and forth on the spring. We noticed this sliding effect existed as well. The follower appears to be better positioned and tensioned more uniformly when looked at and touched. The old one would tip foward due to the sliding mentioned earlier. I thought this might be part of the prob. I got back home and tried loading rds. in the mag well. Still, it seems like too much effort and difficulty. Cartridge OAL is 2.80-2.805 in. So, over lenght is not the problem.

Hooks tells me this is a major drawback in the Rem. design and this very problem has occured in combat situations. For this reason, he preferrs the Win M70 pre-64 action because of it's loading ease and feeding reliability. He demonstrated as much w/ two M70s of his own. Well, I get all frustrated and think, now what? I really don't know what is wrong w/ my rifle, nor how to fix it if it's fixable.

While driving home, I was having a major pout about all this. I even though about getting one of these modifications done where M1-A mags. can be used. I thought, okay , fine, I'll forsake Remingtons and get a pre-64 M70. My house can burn down, my car can burst into flames, my kids can be kidnapped and sold into slavery, but don't , please God, don't let my M700 malfunction in any way. I just can't take it,Lord. I'm not that strong!! So I drove home sucking my thumb after having lost control of my bladder in the front seat in the fetal position on Hwy I-20. Oh, well, maybe I exaggerate just a bit. But I was a little frustrated and pissed. Has anyone ever experienced this " loading the mag./feeding rds. from the mag." problem.?

Jeff returns to his red flannel hide with a fresh change of Depends and holds his breath hoping against hope for soothing words of wisdom and comfort from his betters at Sniper Country...

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Whimpering like a spineless girly-man in Smyrna, Ga USA - Saturday, October 10, 1998 at 01:41:34 (EDT)

Jeff A. DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT GO WITH THE M1A/M14 MAG MOD TO THE REMINGTON 700!! If you are finding yourself in the Kent State fetal position over feeding problems now, you will end up like little black sambo running around in ever diminishing circles until you disappear up our own asshole if you try the M1A mag mod. I have a question. Are you shooting short action rounds out of a long action weapon? Sounds like the same problem we have occasionally with the M24 which is built on a long action but shoots 7.62. If this is the case, make sure that you push the rounds all of the way to the rear of the magazine as you fill the mag.

If you are having feeding problems out of a Remington action check out the fit between the floorplate and the magazine box. During assembly you can squeeze the box if you aren't careful which will give you fits trying to get the mag to feed right.

After reading about all of these problems with the Remington 700 actions (feeding, extracters etc.) I find it amazing that both the Army and the USMC found it good enough to build thousands of sniper systems based on it. I had a smart ass comment but I will withhold it.

Guys, be careful who you have work on your rifles. There are a lot of fella's out there with certificates from mail order schools who claim to be gun-smiths. Spend the extra bucks to send it to someone like Armament Technology, Iron Brigade Armory, Texas Brigade Armory etc. Also don't fix it if it ain't broke!!!!!!!

Well manly men. Keep doing it in a manly manner and I will catch y'all on the flip flop.

Gooch
gooch <kdgooch@aol.com>
Sherwood, AR USA - Saturday, October 10, 1998 at 03:29:51 (EDT)

Gooch.

I thank you for your email and the Roster post as well. I just now read both. I see no bust on anybody in it. As a matter of fact, I see your comment about the possible" squeeze effect" as a damn good observation.

When loading the 3rd rd., I will encounter resistance that, in my opinion, shouldn't be there. Moreso when attempting to load rd. no. 4.
No. 4 is really a bitch. I'm not sure if this is what you're referring to,but, the mag is a piece fo metal w/ the opening or split at the back. It basically fits in to the opening in bottom of the reciever body when you reassemble it to place it back into the stock. When out of the stock, the two edges of the backside split of the mag well body are just touching or close to it. They also appear to be flush or even, to my eyes, at least.

Now, once back in the stock, w/ screws tightened down, the "line" where the two edged of the split touches appears like it might protrude forward ever so slightly. Not as even or as "flush" as when removed from the stock. Might this be an indication of the squeeze effect you referred to? If there is a squeeze that shouldn't be there, then it could cause a slight deminsional change and, hence, resistance to the loading and perhaps the feeding of rds. I looked this for quite a while last night and wondered. This is my untrained observation,please understand, but it either is congruent w/ what you suggest or at least I, by virtue of neurotic conjecture(what?), am making it fit with what I'm seeing.

In other words, it just don't look rite.

If this were the cause, what would be the solution? The stock is an HS Precision tactical.

I do have another M700 SA mag well body that I'm tempted to see if switching would help. Or, does some surface or point need to be releived to eliminate the squeeze effect? Not being a gunsmith, I just don't know. Part of me wants to create a solution, I guess, to make this puppy run right.

Anyway, thanks for your input. Hell, you may be closing in on the prob. I asked for help. You've responded. Ain't no bust on anybody or anything from where I'm sitting.

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga USA - Saturday, October 10, 1998 at 14:42:33 (EDT)

Gooch:

I forgot this part: It's a short action. I do push rds. to the rear. Also, I'll go double check, but I believe there is a small amt of space between floorplate/TG assy. and bottom of mag. body.

Jeff A.
Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Still Smyrna, Ga. USA - Saturday, October 10, 1998 at 15:04:24 (EDT)

Jeff - Your problem may be that the mag body is not fitting into the recess on the floorplate/trigger guard assembly. There is a step cut out that the mag body must fit into so that the mag body is straight and aligned with the receiver cutout. This would cause the pinching and mis-alignment of the rear slit on the mag body. We have had similar experiences at SOTIC and it is almost always caused when the student fails to check the recess during re-assembly. This is a step we drill into the students for re-assembly check. Open the floorplate and feel inside the mag body. Does the mag body fit inside the floorplate assembly recess? If not, loosen the receiver screws and re-align the body with the recess. If this is difficult to accomplish, then remove the stock and check to see if the mag body fits inside the recess when the stock is off the weapon. It may have been torqued out of shape due to it not fitting before, and being squeezed under pressure of the receiver screws. Also check and see if your receiver is fitted with the Mil Spec mag body screw. The screw attaches the mag body to the reciever and is about as usful as a rubber chisel. If you have a screw holding the mag body, remove it and try to fit the mag body into the recess. Alot of times this will clear up the problem. The army wanted the screw so the weapon would pass the three ball bearing test. Anytime that the weapon's mag body is not aligned with the recess and fitted into it, the results are exactly as you described your problems. In .308 it is the fourth round that is difficult to load and the fifth is impossible. The third round jams in an angled down position. Hope this helps.

Well, better close this one out before I get too long winded on you guys. Hold Hard and let the wind gods be kind. Always remember, "The wind is the shooters friend!!!"

Rick <RBowcher@aol.com>
Fayetteville, NC USA - Saturday, October 10, 1998 at 21:20:25 (EDT)

BTW- I know a guy that had his remmy modified to take the m14 mags, you would be suprised at the jams it's capable of producing. At one point the bolt, cartridge, and mag were all stuck.
Rich <dick2@clarkston.com>
WA USA - Sunday, October 11, 1998 at 00:33:43 (EDT)

Jeff A: Do NOT GIVE UP the Remington. Choosing a Pre-64 would be a BIG mistake. Jack O’Conner and his ilk notwithstanding! If you can not fix this problem, do what the marines did. Choose the superior action (Rem 700) and Mate a supposedly superior trigger housing to it. Use the Win 70 trigger housing and follower. Texas Brigade Armory will do this for you as well as any knowledgable gunsmith. Check first to make sure that you reassembled the box into the receiver properly before spending the money. This is easy to screw up and will affect the follower by pinching it. Ah, I see below Gooch already told you this one. On first look it would appear that the box mag goes into the receiver, but it does not exactly do this. Hell, I now see that Rick covered this also! Man, I am going back to bed!

Scott <xring@voicenet.com>
USA - Monday, October 12, 1998 at 11:30:46 (EDT)

Jeff A.
I know you have allready recieved all the answers you need on your feeding problem so I'll just throw this out for food for thought. When working with someone who hasn't shot the Remingtons a "LOT" and you start doing speed drill's this problem allways arise's. In the heat of competition if you don't make either the concious or unconcious effort to push "Each" round to the rear this will happen on a regular basis, it only takes one round out of place to screw it up. Your working with only 15 to 20 thousands of play. When I attended a sniper school last year this was the major problem with over half the class and it seemed as if most of them had the new detachable mag model's. I've heard that they are touchier yet. So get out from under your bed and quit sucking your thumb and practice "Pushing" those rounds to the rear, we dont want any more talk of Winchester's or you may have to go back for more of those shock treatments and we dont want that now do we??

Pat <mrbullet@hotmail.com>
USA - Tuesday, October 13, 1998 at 11:10:37 (EDT)

Pat and "Sneeky Pete" :

Thanks to the both of you for your response to my Rem. feeding/mag. problem. I haven't done anything yet. I'm thinking about getting an in.-lb. torque wrench before I start loosening stock/action screws. I would at least like to remove the barreled action from the stock a check out the fit as far as the mag. body and the fp/tg step down. The fp/tg is a steel aftermarket from Harris Gunworks. There appears to be the slightest line of space btwn the bottom of the mag and the "frame" or step down part of the tg/fp. If I do remove it, I certianly want to know that there is 65 in lb put back on it. I'll get it fixed somehow. The rifle is too good to be treated otherwise.

Jeff A. <d1k2l3@aol.com>
Smyrna, Ga USA - Tuesday, October 13, 1998 at 22:54:20 (EDT)

Been out of circulation a bit, but things have finally mellowed out and I've had a chance to work with my new Remington 700 Police.

There is one glaring problem with it -- it has the worst magazine setup I have ever used. I'm not talking about the rather strange release system with a latch on either side, but the way it jams so easy when inserting a magazine. If not slowly inserted level with the well, it will lock into place with the magazine angled down in the front about 5 degrees. A rap on the bottom does not seat it fully, and if I try to chamber a round that way the point jams into the front of the well. I feel this is absolutely unsatisfactory for a tactical weapon.

Is there a better magazine system I could switch to, keeping the stock? Or should I just treat it as a BDL that doesn't dump the ammo all over when I unload it?

Jim <hampshire@mediacen.navy.mil>
Ft. Meade, MD USA - Sunday, January 10, 1999 at 13:59:33 (EST) 

Jim - Look under articles and comentary. There is a ditty from Andy Webber on magazines for bolt guns. You might find what you are looking for there.

gooch <gooch@stormmountain.com>
USA - Sunday, January 10, 1999 at 15:02:47 (EST) 

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